Mahatma Gandhi’s Interview to Stead’s Review

[Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav]

Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav

Senior Gandhian Scholar, Professor, Editor and Linguist

Gandhi International Study and Research Institute, Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India

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Mahatma Gandhi’s Interview to Stead’s Review

 

I begged Gandhi to continue his simple meal, tended by an Indian nurse, and he munched an orange while he talked. People came and went silently all the time. Admiring countrymen who flocked to Andheri often at great inconvenience and expense to behold their revered leader, made obeisance and withdrew. Others who listened at respectful distance drank in every word that fell from his lips, fervent approval shining in their dark eyes. Yet though the audience gradually swelled to quite fifty, our conversation was never interrupted by so much as a cough. Thus was the naturally loquacious Indian overawed by the presence of his venerated Mahatma. “Mr. Gandhi.” I said, “I am going to ask you ten questions. You will, of course, reply or decline to answer at your will. Now, why do you make such a feature of preaching home-spinning to Indians? Is it because you hold that India’s economic dependence contributes to its political dependence?”

Gandhi declared without hesitation: Absolutely, when Indians were spinning and weaving their own cotton, they were well off and happy. From the day on which they attempted to sell their cotton to Lancashire, and buy their cloth from Lancashire, they have become increasingly lazy and poor, 85 per cent of India’s population loafs now for 4 months in the year. Foreign cloth has made a nation of idlers and beggars. The charkha (spinning wheel) will restore to the villager not only prosperity, but also self-respect and hope. For the last fifty years Indians have been losing hope. The charkha is a symbol of a new life which will save them from despair. Then you put home-spinning even above the crying need of elementary education of your masses? Why should I wait for my country to be educated in the European sense, before saving it from starvation? Do you know that at least one-third of our 350,000,000 are chronically underfed? They want bread and butter before education. Besides, it is open to question whether Western education would benefit Indians any way. We were happy and prosperous in the old days, without education. We are wretched and poor today, amidst all the vaunted blessings of English civilization. No, I find no difficulty in spreading my gospel of the charkha through lack of understanding. The illiterate villagers welcome the spinning-wheel like a ray of heavenly hope.

It is the shortage of trained instructors which hampers our propaganda. I asked Mr. Gandhi whether he considered the Indian masses ripe for Home Rule Certainly, for that kind of Home Rule which I understand under swaraj. But nobody, not even the English people, can “give” us swaraj. We can only give it to ourselves. Home Rule, on the pattern of the Australian or Canadian constitutions, is not swaraj. Still, it will be infinitely superior to our present state of servitude. If Britain is unwilling to give to us complete independence, I would welcome and accept Home Rule. And I say India is certainly able to enter the British community of nations on that footing. What is your answer to the generally accepted theory of the advocates of the present political system that India could not rule herself because of the irreconcilable differences of her castes, religions and tribes?

Mr. Gandhi smiled. Of course, there are differences. No nation is without them. The United Kingdom was born amidst the Wars of the Roses. Probably we, too, shall fight. But, when we are tired of breaking each other’s heads, we shall discover that, despite the disparities of our races and religions, we can live together, just as the Scotch and Welsh manage to live together. The gravest of India’s admitted abuses and prejudices, such as that fatal theory of untouchability of certain Hindu castes, will disappear when the people are emancipated. Would Indian Home Rule give universal suffrage to the masses? Practically. I mean that every citizen desirous of vote would get a vote. I do not see the use of compulsory enrolment without compulsory voting. Votes of people who must be driven to the poll are of questionable value. My idea is to open enrolling depots all over the country where those desiring to vote can register their names on payment of a small fee just enough to make the voting machinery self-supporting.

I am convinced that we shall obtain in this way popular mandates as intelligent as in any other country. Is there not this danger, in a country like India that released from British restraint, the small intelligentsia of Bengalis, Brahmins, etc., might seize the reins of Government to their own aggrandizement, and the utter enslavement of their ignorant countrymen? Such things, as you are aware, were not unknown in the history of India. But what makes you anticipate them in these days? What power could such usurpers command today to enslave the people? They would have no army, none of the impregnable entrenchment of the English in this country. Why, if any Indians tried to enslave the people, they would tear them to pieces. Next to home spinning, Mr. Gandhi, what do you counsel your countrymen to do to attain swaraj? We must get rid of the unsympathetic domination by a foreign people who only come here to drain our wealth. I have nothing against the English individually. They probably treat us as well as any other foreign nation would. Of course, there are many minor irritations, inseparable from foreign rule. But our greatest grievance against the English is that they have steadily impoverished India.

If Englishmen living in India became loyal, useful citizens of this country, as they became in Australia or South Africa, I should welcome them as my brothers. But they only come here to exploit my people, and to draw the substance from the land. After a century of this steady drain, we are nearing exhaustion. We must either stop this drain, or lose the last traces of our one-time greatness and culture. That is why I ask the English to go away. I am certain we can force them to go, by non-co-operation, without violence. The English may pass laws, but they cannot force us to obey them. They may prescribe taxes, but they can compel only comparatively few to pay them. Non-co-operation and non-violence are more potent weapons than guns. Still, guns have their uses. Mr. Gandhi, you may deprecate them because they are not at your disposal. If you had arms, would you consider yourself justified in using them to drive out the English? Heaven forbid! Contemplate the carnage and misery wrought by the small nations of Europe during the late War, and then, imagine the terrible consequences of 30 crores of Indians seizing arms! Besides, force never settles one single problem. Behold the present plight of Europe after such a “settlement” by force! We have no right to use force even against our oppressors; but it is our duty to refuse to help them to oppress us further.

That is why we must not co-operate with the English till they co-operate with us. You have studied and travelled much, Mr. Gandhi, and must admit that India would have fared worse under any but British rule, that England has shown much patience and forbearance under many provocations. What more would you have the English do? The whole of our demands can be compressed into one word, Retire! And if you are not yet willing to retire completely, give us at least the autonomy of your self-governing dominions. We have enough common sense to prefer the half loaf to no bread at all. But if we are to join the family of British nations, we demand a say, not only in our own affairs, but in those of the whole Empire, in proportion to our population. In other words, we shall expect the centre of Imperial interests to be shifted to India, as its most populous component. Any member of the Empire objecting to this change would have the remedy of leaving the Commonwealth of British nations. As a man of the world you realize that the English are not likely to relinquish, at your mere bidding, their enormous interest, material and political, which they have built up in India by so much labour and sacrifice. How do you picture to yourself the practical fulfillment of your aims? Do you believe that your own efforts, or outside pressure, will eventually bring about your liberation? Our own efforts can and will end any foreign rule. If all my people understood and practiced the true doctrine of non-cooperation and non-violence, we should have swaraj tomorrow. It would descend to us as from Heaven. Indians being frail, like other mortals, we shall have to wait. But our lesson is going home to the remotest villages, and every spinning-wheel that hums in a mud cottage is bringing us nearer our inevitable liberation. One questions more. How do you view Australia’s virtual embargo against Asiatics? I cannot understand this short-sighted policy of a nation which I otherwise admire. It is bad on economic, ethical and political grounds. But I admit that I have not given much attention to Australia’s problems. I am too much engrossed in Indian affairs. Therefore, I would not like to express more than my personal, unauthoritative opinion on a question which I have not studied.

 

Reference:

The Searchlight, 27-6-1924