Mahatma Gandhi’s Interview to Preston Grover

[Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav]

Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav

Senior Gandhian Scholar, Professor, Editor and Linguist

Gandhi International Study and Research Institute, Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India

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Mahatma Gandhi’s Interview to Preston Grover  

 

Q. There has been a great deal of questioning in America and India to as to the nature of your activities during the balance of the War. I should like to know what it will be like.

GANDHIJI: But can you tell me when the War will end?

Q. There is a good deal of speculation that you are planning some new movement. What is the nature of it?

A. It depends on the response made by the Government and the people. I am trying to find out public opinion here and also the reaction on the world outside.

Q. When you speak of the response, you mean response to your new proposal?

A. Oh yes, I mean response to the proposal that the British Government in India should end today. Are you started?

Q. I am not. You have been asking for it and working for it.

A. That’s right. I have been working for it for years. But now it has taken definite shape and I say that the British power in India should go today for the world peace, for China, for Russia and for the Allied cause. I shall explain to you how it advances the Allied cause. Complete independence frees India’s energies, frees her to make her contribution to the world crisis. Today the Allies are carrying the burden of a huge corpse a huge nation lying prostrate at the feet of Britain, I would even say at the feet of the Allies. For America is the predominant partner, financing the war, giving her mechanical ability and her resources which are inexhaustible? America is thus a partner in the guilt.

Q. Do you see a situation when after full independence is granted American and Allied troops can operate from India?

A. I do. It will be only then that you will see real cooperation. Otherwise all the effort you put up may fail. Just now Britain is having India’s resources because India is her possession. Tomorrow whatever the help, it will be real help from a free India.

Q. You think India in control interferes with Allied action to meet Japan’s aggression?

A. It does.

Q. When I mentioned Allied troops operating I wanted to know whether you contemplated complete shifting of the present troops from India.

A. Not necessarily.

Q. It is on this that there is a lot of misconception.

A. You have to study all I am writing. I have discussed the whole question in the current issue of Harijan. I do not want them to go, on condition that India becomes entirely free. I cannot then insist on their withdrawal, because I want to resist with all my might the charge of inviting Japan to India.

Q. But suppose your proposal is rejected, what will be your next move?

A. It will be a move which will be felt by the whole world. It may not interfere with the movement of British troops, but it is sure to engage British attention. It would be wrong of them to reject my proposal and say India should remain a slave in order that Britain may win or be able to defend China. I cannot accept that degrading position. India free and independent will play a prominent part in defending China. Today I do not think she is rendering any real help to China. We have followed the non-embarrassment policy so far. We will follow it even now. But we cannot allow the British Government to exploit it in order to strengthen the stranglehold on India. And today it amounts to that. The way, for instance, in which thousands are being asked to vacate their homes with nowhere to go to, no land to cultivate, no resources to fall back upon, is the reward of our non-embarrassment. This should be impossible in any free country. I cannot tolerate India submitting to this kind of treatment. It means greater degradation and servility, and when a whole nation accepts servility it means good-bye for ever to freedom.

Q. All you want is the civil grip relaxed. You won’t then hinder military activity?

A. I do not know. I want unadulterated independence. If the military activity serves but to strengthen the stranglehold, I must resist that too. I am no philanthropist to go on helping at the expense of my freedom. And what I want you to see is that a corpse cannot give any help to a living body. The Allies have no moral cause for which they are fighting, so long as they are carrying this double sin on their shoulders, the sin of India’s subjection and the subjection of the Negroes and African races. Mr. Grover tried to draw a picture of a free India after an Allied victory. Why not wait for the boons of victory? Gandhiji mentioned as the boons of the last World War the Rowlett Act and martial law and Amritsar. Mr. Grover mentioned more economic and industrial prosperity by no means due to the grace of the Government, but by the force of circumstances, and economic prosperity was a step further forward to swaraj. Gandhiji said the few industrial gains were wrung out of unwilling hands, he set no store by such gains after this war, those gains may be further shackles, and it was a doubtful proposition whether there would be any gains when one had in mind the industrial policy that was being followed during the war. Mr. Grover did not seriously press the point.

Q. You don’t expect any assistance from America in persuading Britain to relinquish her hold on India.

A. I do indeed.

Q. With any possibility of success?

A. There is every possibility, I should think. I have every right to expect America to throw her full weight on the side of justice, if she is convinced of the justice of the Indian cause.

Q. You don’t think the American Government is committed to the British remaining in India?

A. I hope not. But British diplomacy is so clever that America, even though it may not be committed, and in spite of the desire of President Roosevelt and the people to help India, it may not succeed. British propaganda is so well organized in America against the Indian cause that the few friends India has there have no chance of being effectively heard. And the political system is so rigid that public opinion does not affect the administration.

Q. It may, slowly.

A. Slowly? I have waited long, and I can wait no longer. It is a terrible tragedy that 40 crores of people should have no say in this war. If we have the freedom to play our part we can arrest the march of Japan and save China. Mr. Grover, having made himself sure that Gandhiji did not insist on the literal withdrawal of either the British or the troops, now placing himself in the position of the Allies, began to calculate the gains of the bargain. Gandhiji of course does not want independence as a reward of any services, but as a right and in discharge of a debt long overdue.

Q. What specific things would be done by India to save China, if India is declared independent?

A. Great things, I can say at once, though I may not be able to specify them today for I do not know what government we shall have. We have various political organizations here which I expect would be able to work out a proper national solution. Just now they are not solid parties, they are often acted upon by the British power, they look up to it and its frown or favour means much to them. The whole atmosphere is corrupt and rotten. Who can foresee the possibilities of a corpse coming to life? At present India is a dead weight to the Allies.

Q. By dead weight you mean a menace to Britain and to American interests here?

A. I do. It is a menace in that you never know what sullen India will do at a given moment.

Q. No, but I want to make myself sure that if genuine pressure was brought to bear on Britain by America, there would be solid support from yourself?

A. Myself? I do not count with the weight of 73 years on my shoulders. But you get the co-operation whatever it can give willingly of a free and mighty nation. My co-operation is of course there. I exercise what influence I can by my writings from week to week. But India’s is an infinitely greater influence. Today because of widespread discontent there is not that active hostility to Japanese advance. The moment we are free, we are transformed into a nation prizing its liberty and defending it with all its might and therefore helping the Allied cause.

Q. May I concretely ask will the difference be the difference that there is between what Burma did and what, say, Russia is doing?

A. You might put it that way. They might have given Burma independence after separating it from India. But they did nothing of the kind. They stuck to the same old policy of exploiting her. There was little co-operation from Burmans; on the contrary there was hostility or inertia. They fought neither for their own cause nor for the Allied cause. Now take a possible contingency. If the Japanese compel the Allies to retire from India to a safer base, I cannot say today that the whole of India will be up in arms against the Japanese. I have a fear that they may degrade themselves as some Burmans did. I want India to oppose Japan to a man. If India was free she would do it, it would be a new experience to her, in twenty-four hours her mind would be changed. All parties would then act as one man. If this live independence is declared today I have no doubt India becomes a powerful ally. Mr. Grover raised the question of communal disunion as a handicap, and he added that before the American Independence there was not much unity in the States.

G. I can only say that as soon as the vicious influence of the third party is withdrawn, the parties will be face to face with reality and close up ranks. Ten to one my conviction is that the communal quarrels will disappear as soon as the British power that keeps us apart disappears.

Q. Would not Dominion Status declared today do equally well?

A. No good. We will have no half measures, no tinkering with independence. It is not independence that they will give to this party or that party, but to an indefinable India. It was wrong, I say, to possess India. The wrong should be righted by leaving India to herself.

Q. May I finally ask you about your attitude to Rajaji’s move?

A. I have declared that I will not discuss Rajaji in public. It is ugly to be talking at valued colleagues. My differences with him stand, but there are some things which are too scared to be discussed in public. But Mr. Grover had not so much in mind the Pakistan controversy as C. R.’s crusade for the formation of a national government. Mr. Grover had the discernment to make it clear that C. R. “could not be motivated by British Government. His position happens to harmonize with them”. G. You are right. It is fear of the Japanese that makes him tolerate the British rule. He would postpone the question of freedom until after the war. On the contrary I say that if the war is to be decisively won, India must be freed to play her part today. I find no flaw in my position. I have arrived at it after considerable debating within myself; I am doing nothing in hurry or anger. There is not the slightest room in me for accommodating the Japanese. No, I am sure that India’s independence is not only essential for India, but for China and the Allied cause.

Q. What are the exact steps by which you will save China?

A. The whole of India’s mind would be turned away from Japan. Today it is not. C. R. knows it, and it worries him as it should worry any sane patriot. It worried me no less, but it drives me to a contrary conclusion. India lying at the feet of Great Britain may mean China lying at the feet of Japan. I cannot help using this language. I feel it. You may think it startling and big. But why should it be startling? Think of 400 million people hungering for freedom. They want to be left alone. They are not savages. They have an ancient culture, ancient civilization, such variety and richness of languages. Britain should be ashamed of holding these people as slaves. You may say: ‘You deserve it!’ If you do, I will simply say it is not right for any nation to hold another in bondage. P. G. I agree. G. I say even if a nation should want to be in bondage it should be derogatory to one’s dignity to keep it in bondage. But you have your own difficulties. You have yet to abolish slavery!

Q. In United States, you mean?

A. Yes, your racial discrimination, your lynch law and so on. But you don’t want me to remind you of these things.

 

Reference:

Harijan, 21-6-1942