K. M. MUNSHI’S INTERVIEW WITH LORD LINLITHGOW, January 12, 1940

[Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav]

Prof. Dr. Yogendra Yadav

Gandhian Scholar

Gandhi Research Foundation, Jalgaon, Maharashtra, India

Contact No. – 09415777229, 094055338

E-mail- [e-mail];[e-mail]

 

 

K. M. MUNSHI’S INTERVIEW WITH LORD LINLITHGOW, January 12, 1940

 

 

LINLITHGOW: We have met under different circumstances. Let me talk to you about the general situation. I am not going to wait till the end of the war for settling the Indian problem. Possibly the war will not be over till June 1941, and we are so far away that our problem could be adjusted by us here without being concerned with a battle or two in France. There is another fact in which you are as much interested as I am. England is making a colossal effort to win the war and at the end of the war, as on the last occasion, it will be exhausted. At the time there will be a tendency to liberalize the institutions of the Empire. India should not then be found unprepared and disunited. You must have seen my recent statement. Between Dominion Status of the Westminster variety and Independence there is only a difference in name. It will take time to Develop India’s capacity, even for the work which will be cut out for you.

Take the Act of 1935. The word ‘Federation’ has become like a dried fish which stinks in everybody’s nose. But take the main objections to it.

First there is Defence. You will admit that the military machine is now no longer the concern of one country. Its training and organization as at present must be under common control, and India must be prepared to wait to be able to take over charge Second, Foreign affairs. They are in the same position Third, the commercial safeguards, which you call discrimination. They could be adjusted. But as the world goes today, India cannot afford to have free trade party (sic). But I would not despair

of coming to an agreed formula on the point. Fourth, there is the question of direct elections to the Assembly.

K. M. MUNSHI: I am not sure whether Gandhiji is very particular about direct elections to the Assembly.

LINLITHGOW: Then the next question is that of the States. You can’t have Dominion Status unless the States are brought in in some manner. If a proper effort is made I would not despair of settling their questions in some way unless you pitch your claim very high. The next question is that of the Central Assembly. I won’t like to argue when people claim something as a moral right. But, given goodwill on both sides, ways and means could be found to have a body which would serve the purpose.

K. M. MUNSHI: Gandhiji has already stated that he would be satisfied with an agreed equivalent. Perhaps a convention of all the legislatures might be a good substitute.

LINLITHGOW: That leaves the question of minorities. I will concede that the minorities have no right to block the progress.

K. M. MUNSHI: But by speaking in the way you do, you give them an instrument to put forward the highest demand. That makes our task difficult. That has been our past experience of the British statesmen. They gave the minorities such an undue importance that they were led to make extravagant claims. In 1916 Congress agreed to Jinnah’s demands thinking that they would have communal peace thereafter. The Lucknow Pact was ripped open. The MacDonald Award came. Against Hindu opinion, Gandhiji got the Congress not to reject the communal award but to work it. And still when you call Gandhiji you must needs call Jinnah and fifty other gentlemen as a counterweight. And now in your speeches you throw the burden of settling with him upon us. How are we expected to do that?

LINLITHGOW: I have to do so. I have not merely to speak to a public in India; I have also a public in England. That public is an important factor both from your and my point of view. And it has a feeling that the Hindus as a community are against British interests.

K. M. MUNSHI: But you see the result. There was a cordial atmosphere in your dealings with Gandhiji about the time we left office. Now you make pronouncements which look like preparations for a case to impress the world that, when we broke from you, you were right. I see a reaction to this on our side. Gandhiji’s recent statements show a tendency to occupy a politically unassailable position when mass action is started. Instead of both of you coming nearer, I feel that you are drifting apart, and no settlement is likely if both of you continue to drift away from one another.

LINLITHGOW: You mean we are creating fences round ourselves?

K. M. MUNSHI: Certainly. You hold Gandhiji in great respect. You told me at Simla that you want an alliance with Right Wing Congress. If you are serious about it why don’t you help in this settlement?

LINLITHGOW: Am I not doing it every hour of my life?

K. M. MUNSHI: Why do you then let Mr. Jinnah make things impossible? You have got the Aga Khan; you have got your friend Sir Sikander. It is your actions which send up Mr. Jinnah’s rates. That leads him to make absurd charges against us. You do not even reply to them. And he is so difficult now that any friendly approach to him has become impossible.

LINLITHGOW: I know that he has become very difficult, but that is only from a short view of things. For the present he has made himself into a rallying centre of minorities. Time alone can remove him from that position. But from a long view of things Jinnah cannot succeed. He would soon be found out as a stumbling-block to progress.

K. M. MUNSHI: If that is your view, why don’t you set about discussing matters with Gandhiji? This ‘range artillery’, as Sir Maurice Gwyer puts it, is scarcely helpful.

LINLITHGOW: I am going to do it as soon as I am ready.

K. M. MUNSHI: But it may be too late. For instance, on the 26th of January, there is bound to be somewhat ‘war mentality’ amongst us.

LINLITHGOW : I don’t think there will be any trouble, but there would be considerable enthusiasm.

K. M. MUNSHI: Yes, they will follow the Congress. I feel the undercurrents amongst our ordinary Congressmen, and I wonder how long Gandhiji will be able to keep them in leash. For the moment he is exercising a strong restraining hand.

LINLITHGOW: Yes, he has become powerful. But do you seriously think that he will be able to carry Jawaharlal?

K. M. MUNSHI: Jawaharlal is a great idealist and is therefore an idol of the masses. But the inspiration, organization, and technique are all Gandhiji’s and Jawaharlal will not part company with Gandhiji.

LINLITHGOW: I think it was a mistake to have left office. Perhaps there were reasons on your side which I cannot appreciate.

K. M. MUNSHI: Yes, we could not have continued long in office and helped you in the war unless we had obtained a share in the Centre which could justify our being there. Otherwise it would have been a thankless job. For instance, subhas would have made our task very difficult.

LINLITHGOW: You think subhas formidable. I do not think so.

K. M. MUNSHI: Not in that sense, but if we had been in power he would have got himself arrested only in order to make our position difficult. Now things are better from every point of view and things should be done early.

LINLITHGOW: I hope to make a move soon.

K. M. MUNSHI: You hold Gandhiji in great respect and Gandhiji, I am sure, holds you equally in great respect and if you both cannot settle the matter, nationalism will naturally go into wilderness.

LINLITHGOW: Well, you are putting a great and flattering burden on me.

K. M. MUNSHI : If there is no alliance between nationalist India and Britain it may be that we may go, maybe for a long time, but then Savarkar and Jinnah will fight it out.

LINLITHGOW: It will be a disaster.